The Seun Kuti interview: 'Afrobeat is not commercial'

By Osagie Alonge

He’s a remarkable Afrobeat player who has toured round the world, he’s also passionate about his country and has readily positioned himself as an activist. 

NET had a chat with Seun Kuti, son of the late Afrobeat legend Fela Akinkulapo Kuti where he talks about how he thinks Afrobeat is being exploited, his relationship with his father’s Egypt 80 band and why he isn’t looking for a relationship with any woman. 

You just came back from tour. How many countries did you visit and how many shows did you do?

We performed in the US first, then moved to Mexico, Brazil and other places. Approximately 33 shows in 30 States.

How was your SXSW experience?

For me it was nice. If  I may confess, it is not something I had to do. It was something that I really wanted to do.

Of all performances, which one would you say is more interesting?

I can’t say one is more interesting than the other but in terms of prestige, I think playing in two of the biggest festivals in US, like Coachella, is a good feeling. Playing in front of thousands of people is a good highlight. But for me, playing in front of thousands of people doesn’t make it your show. When you play in front of two thousand loyal fans of yours, it makes you feel better. The festival is not about you, you have time limits and all, but in the club, you have the world to yourself. This is the first time I’ll have a sold out show in the US.

When was your first US show?

2008. That was my major tour, and I have not been there since then. This year’s was amazing because I went to the wildest cities like Aspen, Colorado etc. We had so much fun.

What do you think about the genre ‘Afrobeat’ and how it’s becoming popular beyond the shores of Nigeria?

I think everybody is now jumping on Afrobeat. It has grown to its own thing. The music has grown beyond Fela. I played with a group of 16 – 18 year olds in the Netherlands. They play only Afrobeat; the group is called ‘Jungle by night’, they are an instrumental Afrobeat band. Go to Japan, Afrobeat is very big there; we have close to 6 Afrobeat bands there. On July 28, I’ll be playing in Japan at their major festival for two hours, because I will be headlining.

Afrobeat originated from Nigeria, but it seems a lot of Nigerian artistes don’t seem to be concerned with the genre. Why do you think that is?

What I will say is that it is hard to do such. A lot of musicians grow up in the average family and it’s hard for them to break into the limelight. Also, most of the shows are sponsored by government, who won’t like you to come abuse them in their shows. Some other countries support their own thing, but it is different here.

Let me give you an example, Benin Republic is one of the countries that produces cotton, America gives them like $2b a year to boost their cotton  but the same America subsidizes their cotton industry back home with about $25b. It means they don’t want any other country to overpower them in cotton. But here, it’s different.

Secondly, I believe if people love you where you are from, it means you are doing the wrong thing.

Would you explain that?

You hardly see somebody fighting for his people and will still be loved by the same people, it never happens.

In a recent interview in Ghana, D’banj said he actually does Afrobeat. He said his music is another variation of the genre, more refined. Do you agree?

He is saying that because he has ‘oga’ in America. What is the meaning of refined? Afrobeat is unrefined. I think the dude just said that to get his international recognition, you know he’s been trying for years. Let me paint the picture for you. When MTV Base came to Africa, I was the artiste that played at the opening, when they did the first award in Africa, I opened the show, they came to me and I got paid both times, not for promotion. They might not play my music again, but when they needed to boost their brand, they came, when they needed credibility. I was young then, in my middle 20’s, and I didn’t understand much, but now I have seen a lot of things. MTV came to meet me in Coachella, they said they wanted to film me around the place but I told them to come and film me around Lagos. Really, Afrobeat is the only music in Africa that has international recognition. I know D’banj is trying to go global so he is trying to give them what they are already familiar with, and I think I understand where he is coming from.

But I think there is a major disconnect somewhere. Even on iTunes, they call it Afrobeat because that’s what they say they are playing. It’s not the whites that are misinterpreting anything, it’s what the musicians say they play and I think I understand them very well. But what I won’t take is people using Afrobeat to commercialize themselves. Afrobeat is not commercial; it has something it stands for. If you want to use it to gain your ground, you have to respect and understand what it stands for. You can’t just use Afrobeat and don’t want Afrobeat to use you. For me, anybody can hide under it but if I hear what you finally put out and it’s not in the spirit of Afrobeat, I am going to squash that person; I know I have that international voice to condemn such.

Apart from music, what else do you enjoy traveling for?

When you travel you see the world. It’s good when you are recognized and play everywhere. I am glad I played in Mexico and some other places. I enjoy when I play music and people get touched.

How would you compare the standard of living in Nigeria to other countries?

I shouldn’t be the one to tell anybody that one my brother, you know your number in the poverty ranking so why should I be the one to say it again? The same dudes have been telling you what to do for more than 40 years now. Out of 200 nations, we are number 196 on the list. We were between 60 to 80, so you can spot the difference.

I don’t think I should be the one to preach it. There is no reason why the richest country in the continent will have the poorest people and the truth is because we have never done anything from the point of view of African people. Africa has always been a strong continent but we imbibed the white culture. In Nigeria, Shell is more important than most Nigerians, so is Chevron. They dedicate to foreign investment. It is not a coincidence that there are no African investments employing whites in Europe but we have foreign investments coming to Africa to play on us. Why can’t we achieve what we have to achieve on our own? I refuse to believe that Africans cannot do our things in our African way. Look at China, they are now growing bigger than America and that’s because they grew from within.

You late father’s Egypt 80s band, describe yourself as the leader…

I am not the leader of the band, Baba is the leader of the band, I am just like the band CEO, and I attend to the business parts and headline shows.

I have rolled with the band 20 years officially. The band is like a family

How was growing up like?

[It had its] Ups and downs but I think it’s more ups for me than downs. People just didn’t understand who my father was and what he stands for. Nigerians didn’t understand him till now. They understand his message and not his person. People did stuff to me because I am Fela’s son and they expected me not to react, but that never stopped me from reacting because I’m from a home that is reactive.

Did you ever attend Fela on Broadway?

I have seen the show a lot of times but didn’t attend.

Are you practically involved?

The story was taken from his auto biography; it’s according to the book. They didn’t add to the story; if I must be honest, they only acted it

You hardly collaborate with Nigerian artistes. Why?

A lot of people come to me but I don’t just think they are talented enough. When I hear their music I just have to tell them to fly. Some people see it as being snobbish, but I know what I stand for. Some musicians are lost in the world of fame. Contrary to what people think, I have done a lot of collaborations. I just did one with a band from Switzerland called Professor Wusa, I just did a song with Latin–hip hop crew called Calotraze, I have done with Mokobe, and more. I work with artistes that flow with my kind of music, not just for hype.

How long does it take you to record an album?

This last one took two years to record and that is because I don’t get my songs from the studio, I take my time to write them and I have been performing them in shows for over a year. I mixed it in London.

What inspires you to make your music?

I think it’s my environment, coming from this geographical location because I don’t see myself as a Nigerian, I rather see myself as a Yoruba man whereby I have more history to myself than a Nigeria that was created by Lord Lugard and his mistress in 1914. That’s not an identity if you ask me. In fact, the woman is not even his wife, she’s his mistress so, the name Nigeria means nothing. They came, exploited the land and gave it a name. The first thing Nkrumah did in Ghana was to kick out the name ‘Gold Coast’. They are more in tune with their culture and all; they prefer to be called Ghanaians, which means Black Star.

I went to study their religion for a while and I noticed it’s not about Christianity and Islam. Witchcraft is official in Ghana; even if it’s fake, it is official. In Nigeria, we are the first to laugh at our own religion, calling it barbaric and old. But it’s a lie, we don’t just like our own religion, we believe it though. Even the pastor wants you to believe your gods are the bad gods. These are the same gods that brought your ancestors, you now want to kick against it, not that you don’t believe in it. We have to believe in one God. I have never been to any church in America were they preach about principalities because it doesn’t exist to them. I swear down, what they know is Jesus, nothing like principalities. It’s only in Nigeria that people are forced by foreign religion to paint our own religion black. Nowhere in the world is as bad as where we are today. We turned our back on what we have.

Did you at any point think the Occupy Nigeria revolution, would change things?

I did not. You don’t sit down 20 years doing nothing and just decide to protest for one week and think the world will change immediately. My own grievance towards the deregulation is their motive behind it. For me, before you can impose deregulation on us, considering the fact that other countries pay far less than you charge for the same product already, they should provide us the same amenities with the other countries they refer us to, then you can charge us what you want to charge us. Not just because Okonjo Iweala said it.

Do you see yourself as an activist other than a musician?

Yes, even nowadays, I see myself as an activist first. If I cannot give a message to my people with my music, then I am not doing music. So, I consider myself an activist first.

If you are to rate Nigerian music on the scale of 10, what would you rate it?

Well, in Nigerian context, you have to give them 10/10, but in my own world, I give them a three. Only a very few artistes in Nigeria are doing what they set out to do. In Nigeria, Jazz music cannot make it, Classical music cannot also make it, same with Afro music and some other good music. On that note, I cannot rate the music higher than that because that means our music is controlled.

You got into a small confrontation with Obi Asika on Twitter, over the standard of music in Nigeria…

Though Obi later apologized, he was saying I cannot condemn what other 50 countries appreciate. He said I have my own platform but I am sorry I don’t.  There are hundreds of people standing on the Afrobeat platform, if I and my brother die today, Afrobeat will continue to move even faster, not in Nigeria, but all over the world. He said I was being selfish to say what I said but most musicians do what they are taught in the Universities, not what is right. All I said was ‘I think they could do better.’

I don’t know how to be diplomatic when it comes to issues like that. What they do in Nigeria’s music industry now is somebody will rise, they will praise him, put money in his pocket and then he disappears. That’s not music. Look at the likes of King Sunny Ade, Boyz II Men, George Clinton. In the 70’s, Nigeria had the potential to do this, people came to us to learn music. Paul McCartney came, Stevie Wonder came, James Brown, they all came to shrine and saw my father. The first time Paul McCartney came here, I think my father accused him of stealing his music and he didn’t allow him into the shrine the second time… Music in itself is an art and we have to promote that art in our own way. We can’t keep producing musicians that are like boxer shorts that you just wear and throw it away later. I never attacked Obi Asika. What he said to me was wrong because that was not what I meant. I only meant that we should compete on our level, not on the level that we are allowed to compete. Nobody should pull African art up, we should stand our ground.

In one word, describe Seun Kuti

Honest.

Are you in a relationship?

No. after all I have to do, you still want to add relationship? Not possible.